Zeitgeist Part 1 Source material?

In order to understand Zeitgeist Part 1 and where the information came from and what it all means, the presenters of "Take the Zeitgeist Challenge" and the debunkers, need to examine ALL the evidence which was used to create Zeitgeist Part1 If this is a fair and open forum, then I would like to present the following: If my opinion is removed, then it will prove this site bias!

Acharya S is constantly under vicious attack from a few ugly natured individuals who have taken it upon themselves to denounce Acharya's work without even examining the facts by reading her books. Acharya did not write history, she has just presented it. I've seen one guy on ebay who bought Acharya's book, got to page 3 where it mentions Hitler and proceeded to throw a "hissy fit", writing a torrent of slanderous and demeaning remarks about the Author, instead of examining the facts, presented by the Author... Having personally dealt with "cult mentality" since 1994 I have personally witnessed many times these technique, where one is taught to discredit "the messenger", rather than debate "the message" or to create a "Strawman", by demanding questions to answers that are blatantly presented out of context and offering cash as an incentive. For someone to go to the length and create a website and offering cash disguised with Strawman tactics or for someone to write a seething review of a 417 page book, after only being capable of reading a few pages, warrants an unbiased review, _base_d only on the evidence historical and archaeological presented that formed the basis of Zeitgeist Part1.

The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S.

Like a handful of others and I mean only the brave few, I have always wanted to know the truth to the point where you could go no further and never turn back. I have searched for this truth for as long as I can remember and I have never settled for mediocre, half hearted answers or flimsy speculation _base_d on assumptions, but have always demanded the highest of undeniable and physical evidence to prove the facts beyond a shadow of a doubt and because of the hard unquestionable proof I always required, my search continued on and on, year after year, as one after the other I felt unsatisfied and let down by so called "professional people" and "experts" who only ended up setting forth endless bombastic rhetorical debate and unhealthy, circular reasoning, while reaping the glory and usually the money for themselves.

The material presented by the historical and archaeological evidence so precisely detailed and articulated in Acharya's book, The Christ Conspiracy, is like nothing you have seen before in one compact source. One after the other, page by page, the astounding facts of history are laid bare and the many myths shown to be exactly what they are: An ancient story, encircling our world and re-told over millennia, using many different characters and repeatedly played out as a drama on the world's stage.

In order to understand what is history and what is myth, I needed an expert who was completely unbiased and who was not just denouncing one group in favour of another. I wanted facts, hard evidence and this could only come from actual historical archaeology. I searched the Internet and repeatedly came up with the book called The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya s. I looked at many similar _title_s but what stood out about this book was Acharya's qualities as a historian, archaeologist and mythologist, among others.

The opening passage of the introduction in The Christ Conspiracy says this:

"Believe not because some old manu_script_s are produced, believe not because it is in your national belief, believe not because you have been made to believe from your childhood, but reason truth out, and after you have analyzed it, then if you find it will do good to one and all, believe it, live up to it and help others to live up to it!"

Very rationale words indeed but how many people would actually do it?

How any people would actually have the humility to change they entire way of life and their entire belief system if proven to them it was all mythology, with no basis in historical fact? Or perhaps you may wonder why so many converted to Christianity when they had previously believed in another deity and readily _object_ed to Christianity? The paragraph at the top of page 10 may give you a small clue as to why so many renounced their old way of life and they engrained religion in favour for the Prince of Peace!

In the second chapter, The Quest for Jesus, it deals with Evemerists or Evemerism, which as Acharya explains is the concept thought up by a Greek, named Evemeras, who was a 4th Century (B.C.E.) philosopher. This guy basically decided that rather than the person being mythological, the gods of his time were in fact "historical" people, like kings, emperors and heroes of old whose exploits were then deified. Evemerists have put forth a great deal of literature attempting to prove that Jesus was a great Jewish reformer and revolutionary who irritated and annoyed the Romans and so had to be dealt with but even by page 20, very early in the book, it states that many individuals over the centuries have been unable to accept the historical nature of Jesus because not only is there no proof of his existence but virtually all evidence points to him being a mythological character. 

Chapter 3, The Holy Forgery Mill is by far the shortest chapter in this encyclopedic work and is only 6 pages long but in keeping with the entire book, it packs a lethal blow with each snippet of information, like this regarding the Gospels: No writer before 150 A.D. makes the slightest mention of them. The four Gospels were unknown to the early Christian Fathers. Furthermore, the forgers were not very skilled or conscientious, such that they left many clues to their underhand endeavors.

The next 24 pages deals with some incredible facts from biblical and non-biblical sources, the kind they don't tell you at Sunday School! Firstly, the story of Jesus is only found in the New Testament. It took over a thousand years to Canonize the NT and the OT cannon remains different to this day in the Catholic and Protestant versions. Paul supposedly lived at and just after the advert of Christ and should have know of Jesus but never once quotes from Jesus' purported sermons and speeches, parables and prayers, nor does he mention Jesus' supernatural birth or any of his alleged wonders and miracles. Nor does the Pauline literature refer to, Pilate or the Romans, or Caiaphas, or the Sanhedrin, or Herrod or Judas, or the holy women, or ANY person in the gospel account of the Passion, either indirectly or by way of allusion. Evidence is taken directly from all four gospels showing the were not eye witness accounts as Christians would like to have you believe but much later dated forgeries and very poor forgeries at that. But the third century A.D., there were no less than 25 versions of Jesus' death and resurrection and in Acts, we read that the first Christians we found in Antioch, even though there was no canonical gospel there until after 200 CE

Fact after fact tells the reader and shows in great detail that the gospel accounts are utterly unreliable as history and cannot serve as evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed. Here we have a virgin-born "son of God" who was widely famed as a great teacher and wonderworker, miraculously healing and feeding multitudes, walking on water and raising the dead. Who was transfigured on a mount into shinning sun; whose crucifixion was accompanied by great earthquakes, the darkening of the sun and the raising from their grave of numerous "saints" and who himself was resurrected from the dead. Despite the number of great writers at the time, there are basically no non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any known historian of the time. Everything that you would expect to find in history of these events is completely missing!

In chapter 6, en_title_d More evidence of a fraud, Acharya goes in-depth regarding the Gnostics and their belief, Ignatius, the Bishop of Antioch, Marcion of Pontus, Tertullian, the Pagans and the Jews. All in all, it is clear to see that; Christianity began as Gnosticism, refaced with falsehoods concerning a series of facts alleged to have been historical, but which are demonstraitable mythological.

Having already read thought the chapter _title_s when I received the book, I was very eager to get to the one en_title_d, Physical Evidence. In here, Acharya examines the evidence by looking at: Architecture, monuments, coins, medals, in_script_ions, pottery, statues, frescos, and mosaics among other things. In a nut shell. After all these things are examined, basically, there is no physical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ. There is no reliable textual evidence and there in no physical de_script_ion of Jesus in the NT other than which resembles the sun!

In the chapter, The myth of Hebrew Monotheism, an number of very interesting points are made, especially in respect of Elohim, YHWH, Jehovah and much more concerning this name. Where it came from and exactly what it means in regards to WHAT Jehovah really is! Pages 94, 95, 96, & 97 say more than the entire written works of the Watchtower Organisation of Jehovah's witnesses from 1879 to the present date. There is absolutely nothing in any Watchtower/Awake magazine or Watchtower book, video/audio tape, and CD ever produced, that is anywhere as powerful as this, as this IS the truth. Every Jehovah's witnesses must buy this book.

Having already watched Zeitgeist in 2007, I was also eager to read the chapter en_title_d, The Characters. It is clearly shown that; the Jesus story incorporated elements from the tales of other deities recorded in the widespread area of the ancient world, including several of the following world saviors, most or all predate the Christian myth. The list starts on page 106 and is as long as your arm! The list does not pretend to be complete nor it there adequate room in Acharya's book to go into detail of all these mythological character, so only the major p_layer_s are examined, these are: Attis of Phrygia. Buddha. Dionysus/Bacchus. Hercules/Heracles. Horus/Osirus of Egypt. Krishna of India. Mithra of Persia. Prometheus of Greece. Quetzalcoatl of Mexico. Serapis of Egypt and Zoroaster/Zarathustra. While the comparisons and parallels to Christ and the story of Christianity are amazing in themselves, it is what is inscribed on the walls of the Temple at Luxor which is the most astounding. You can cover up and hide the past but you can't change it and this evidence alone shows that Christianity is nothing more than a flagrant copy of Egyptian mythology, re-hashed, re-dressed and regurgitated as new spiritual food for the next gullible generation.

As to the Zeitgeist Challenge presented on this website, the creators of this website have offered cash in relation to the information presented and associated with the following characters: Horus. Attis. Krishna. Dionysus. Mithra and Christ. The reason why they all share virtually the same characteristics, as presented in the Movie Zeitgeist, is because ALL of them are personifications of the SUN! None of them were real people, therefore, this offer of cash for "specific historical data" is a Strawman, designed to keep people away from the truth and what Zeitgeist Part 1 is really all about. Personally, I would not even get out of bed for $250.00 and regardless whether it is $10,000 or $100,000 or $1,000,000.00 that is being offered, ...it makes absolutely no difference, as you may as well be asking for the same proof regarding Apollo, Jupiter, Jehovah or Zeus!

At this point the reader is only 125 pages into a huge work of hard core facts _base_d on archaeological, historical and mythological evidence. Just _base_d on the previous evidence alone of the last 125 pages, it is evident that Jesus Christ is a mythical character _base_d on these various ubiquitous godmen and universal saviors who were part of the ancient world for thousands of years prior to the Christian era; but if the reader thought the onslaught of evidence was over or was in some way, weakening; I tell you now that ANYONE who consider themselves a Christian or followers of Christ and thinks they know about the bible, where it comes from and what it is that lies behind all this; are about to subject themselves to the first of two Atomic shockwaves as Acharya gets ready to annihilate 2,000 years of deliberately induced, preconceived notions from her very own Enola Gay.

Over the next three chapters, the first "Little Boy" is released and all I am going to say about this subject, ...is this. "Every Christian must buy this book and read it, cover to cover. They must examine all the evidence and question everything. Research, investigate and fully understand exactly what it is they are involved in apart of. I did this, as I owed it to myself to know the real truth, not what you are told or have to accept ...and my whole world changed, ...for the better! Anyone who knows me will know that I don't take anything at face value. They know I investigate everything as deeply and as fully as it is possible and I won't accept anything less than the ABSOLUTE truth.

After examining Acharya's work, I felt a freedom like I have never experienced before. I am not a big reader and not very good with big words and I had to Google numerous words and place names to familiarize myself but even so, I could not put the book down. I bought the others and the change in me, (as I had found the answers in Acharya's books to every question I had ever asked myself) was almost indescribable! I felt like I'd been thrust up though the clouds and could view the entire world from above. I could see everything with no fog or mist anymore and I now knew all I ever wanted to know and much more. The smoke was gone and the mirrors shattered and I felt elated, incredible, totally on a different level and my wife could see this huge change in me and not only wanted to know why but she also wanted it herself. The information in Acharya's books totally broke me away from all that mind destroying, endless and needless circular reasoning like: (does the comma come after the word TODAY or before it? Does it read, Truly I say unto you today, or Truly I say unto you, today...) and I can't thank Acharya enough for giving me and many others around the world, a totally new look on life.

By now, the reader is almost halfway thought the book and by page 184, there was to be no letup in the onslaught in exposure of the realistic evidence and in the chapter, The Gospel Story, "Fat Boy" is now dropped on the unsuspecting reader, completely obliterating any remaining psychological need or even the desperate hope of a Saviour god man being needed.

Firstly, before I go into detail regarding the information presented in this chapter, the reader has to fully understand that out of all the things, that can be manipulated, (just about anything you care to mention), TIME, as in the passage of time, cannot be altered. The physical passage of two hours worth of time, does not and cannot be made to fit into the physical space of one hours worth of time! Now if you think it can, then you are either mentally insane; normal ...but severely deluded, or worse, both!

Having dealt with cults from 1994, I have heard countless times this phrase from many Christians, "Time is the greatest enemy of a false prophet!" And this is absolutely true because if a person or group predicts, lets say, the end of the world by a set date to occur in the future and it fails to pass, then they are correctly known as false prophets, so to keep the faithful happy and the money keep rolling in of course, they "stretch time" to a new date, by very clever word play, usually by claming this was a test by God to see who would remain faithful or by blatantly changing the meaning of a _script_ural word and presenting this as New Light from God. Same thing, just dressed differently! The opposite of Stretching Time, is to Compress Time and this is by far the greater of the 2 evils.

Compression of Time can only occur at the hand of man, by man, for man and Mr. Mel Gibson has allot to answer for! I do not know what Mr. Gibson's beliefs are and he is en_title_d to his beliefs as is the next person but I suspect that what he did in the "Passion of Christ" was motivated more by money than by faith. Compression of Time can only occur in stories, books, plays, dramas, acts, theatrical productions, soap operas, documentary films, movies and so on. Compression of Time does not and cannot occur in nature but this is exactly what it is forced into the gospel story to make the purported events come across to the unsuspecting reader as a "realistic sequence" ...but rather than flowing as seamless moments of recorded history, ALL OF THE EVENTS are heavily compressed into a completely impossible time _frame_ and are thus exposed as nothing more than a "_script_ acted drama". After reading this earth shattering evidence, I immediately checked the accuracy of what is purported to have taken place by examining the _script_ures themselves. Not only is the mass of what is described impossible to have taken place in the incredibly short amount of time depicted but these events are also said to have taken place... and are recorded as happening ...at two different times of the morning! Three hours apart! Once the penny drops and you see that thousands of millions have been deliberately mislead, you have to ask yourself, WHY? What is going on? What is the purpose of forcing this story on to humanity for the past 2,000 years? To understand what is going on, you have to familiarize with the Astrological phenomenon, The Precession of the Equinoxes.

I have decided not to write out Acharya's section on Time Compression here, but request interested parties buy The Christ Conspiracy book and you will find the answer to the only question that matters in Zeitgeist Part ! and that is Who was Jesus. Although religion was a major part of our earth's past and still affects us to this day, ...making history as we go, so to speak, its use by the elite is coming to a close. What religion was _base_d on, and presently still is _base_d on, is not historical founded facts, written as actual events in past history and recorded in the historical record but infact, is _base_d purely on Nature and man's perspective of patterns in the stars. Why we believe the things we do and why we act the way we do towards each other on a world-wide scale, ...all this is fully unearthed in this ground breaking book that pulls no punches and will shock you out of your deep, pious trance like state.

The Piscean Age is coming to a close but unless you are prepared to see the beauty of the natural world and the glory of the awesome universe that surrounds us and accept that we are ALL equals in the same boat; and stop playing around with Strawman Questions, then the fanatic fundamentalists who govern this world and ultimately mankind's destiny, will deliberately continue to play out the Greatest Story Ever Told, using the world as its stage, the Zodiac as its _script_ed backdrop and humankind as its unwilling cast.

Truly I say unto you today (no comma) The lunatic ARE running the Asylum as we continue to live in a totally manufactured Orwellian World, ...a man made Zeitgeist! But the Christ Conspiracy unlocks "the mask of Christ" that all Christian groups are masquerading behind and exposes to one and all, the greatest story ever sold!

In order for anyone to fully understand Zeitgeist Part 1 and where the information came from and what it all means, the presenters of "Take the Zeitgeist Challenge", the debunkers and all Christians need to examine ALL the evidence and read the Christ Conspiracy IN FULL!

And no excuses please! I "really have", heard them all before! Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

SAIFAI

Clearly, as we've never removed anything from this site, your opinion is intact. So spare the energy of "site bias" threats. We wouldn't pull anything down from here and we encourage those that are trying to piece together ancient texts or glyphs or whatnot to do it here as a team on our bandwidth dime.

Now, you claim that there is no proof of "specific historical data" about these "gods". And it seems as though you think we're asking for proof that they were real people, which is not the case. We are however looking for primary source material that states something you're implying, which is that all of these gods had these same similar traits. If you can state that " The reason why they all share virtually the same characteristics, as presented in the Movie Zeitgeist, is because ALL of them are personifications of the SUN!" then you should be able to tell us where it is that you are finding these so called "same characteristics".

You can cry "straw man" all you like and that's fine, but unless you or anyone else can showcase where this material can be found... in antiquity not Archarya S books, then there's an issue there. It's an issue of faith. If I have to take your word for it or Acharya S' word for it then I have to put my faith in you or her. If that's what you choose to do, that's your business. It's a free world and you are free to think and do as you feel.

However, there is a bit of hypocrisy involved when the same people scream and shout that there's no proof of Christ, while making claims that are, intellectually speaking, just as _base_less in tangible "fact'. That is to say, I know and understand that outside of the Bible there is very little proof of the existence of Jesus Christ. But I have faith that He existed. For someone to point their finger accusingly in my direction while believing someone who tells them a series of gods all have the same characteristics as Jesus Christ without accurately being able to tell me where they came across this information... well... there's a huge question of intellectual honesty that has to be addressed.

Unlike what you and others seem to think about what we are doing on this site... we aren't looking to fight. We aren't looking to demonize. We aren't even telling people what to think. We are simply asking for sources and encouraging people to actually look this stuff up for themselves because the proof... well, it honestly doesn't appear to exist. And I'm talking proof of these similar traits, not proof that say Isis was a real lady. Mythological Isis having a virgin birth however... is a different question and a different story altogether.

Like I said... you're free to believe what you want. Clearly you took the time to post a well written response to the challenge and you knew you weren't going to get a dime for it. This shouldn't be a matter of money, but rather intellectual honesty. We offer money because for some people, that's the only thing that will motivate them. Likewise, we only offer what we can afford to lose, which means we are being honest and who knows... maybe someone out there can prove the stuff? Should two nobodies with very little income start offering millions of dollars to people for something like this... well, then I'm sure there'd be a lot more interest in it, but we'd be lying to you and to everyone else as we're not rich and we have no backing from anyone.

You may not see it that way, but this challenge is about honesty. And we're not going to lie about how much money we can award a winner any sooner than we're going to make up facts to support our religious views, or to shoot down ZGpt1. We're simply asking for the places we can find proof of ZGpt1, Acharya S', and your own claims about these common characteristics. If they exist, then there must be sources that can be verified in stating as much.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.
-Frank

Hi Frank and firstly let me say thanks for your reply and before I address your main point, I would just like to clear up a few little misunderstandings:

I am glad to see people's post will not be removed. The reason I first stated this was because I have dealt with many people in the past who have not been entirely honest and have only presented a bias view, _base_d purely on their immovable stance, unquestioning faith or indoctrinated belief. I am pleased to see that you come across as a reasonable, intelligent person who wants answers (or proofs) to what seem like obvious and simple questions. As I said in my first post, I have always been the sort of person who wanted to know the truth to the point where you could go no further and never go back. I have now reached that point and I can't tell you how incredible it feels to be fully released from all what I knew, (or was told or expected to believe in before) and now to know everything I ever wanted and much more ...and all from a completely unbiased and shockingly simple source, which stares you in the face day and night.

I have read your mail in full and I will tell you exactly my position: what it is and what it is not, so we have no misunderstandings.

It appears in your reply to my 1st post that "you think": I think you are asking for proof that they were real people, (which as you rightly stated,) is not the case. I know what you are asking and fully understand why you want this information but you have to remember and keep in mind that the characters we are discussing, the "characters/gods" you are referring to, are NOT real individuals who had lives, families, homes, birthdates and who walked around a specific village, town or area of land:

All of the characters you are requesting information on, DID NOT and NEVER DID, EXIST!

These are ALL, psychological projections from man's own mind (_base_d on what he saw in the day and night time skies) and then personified by man, into stories which in turn were pasted on down through countless generations as being true and "really happened" and which spread all over the earth. It's quite simple once you understand what the story is about and where the story came from and the simple reason why they all share virtually the same characteristics, as presented in the Movie Zeitgeist.

This, as I have said, is because ALL of them are personifications of the SUN!

Of course you then ask: then you should be able to tell us where it is that you are finding these so called same characteristics. And the simple answer is: the similar characteristics attributed to these none living characters all come from the same Age old story of the SUN, (that big ball of fiery gas we see in the sky everyday) and its yearly journey, (path) which is back dropped by patterns or (groups) or stars which men have called Constellations and more importantly, the SUN's secondary path, in what is known as the "Precession of the Equinoxes". This is extremely important in de-coding the entire bible.

But lets be totally honest here Frank! The only issue that is at stake in this whole Zeitgeist Challenge is not faith but whether or not Jesus was a real man/god, who lived, walked about and did the things as claimed in the bible. _base_d on these claims, this is why your present state of mind (faith), is the way it is. As you so rightly say: it is a free world and people are free to think and do as they feel. However, an individual also has the moral duty to him/herself, family and friends not to delude themselves and then deliberately present this delusion to others as historical _base_d facts, while a the same time, refusing to examine the real historical and archaeological facts and fully examining the origins of these Age old stories. (See your FREE gift at the end of this post).

When I say, people use Strawman tactics, that is exactly what they do when confronted by material that damages/destroys or even just questions their belief, (their state of mind, which as I said, is called faith!) Sometimes, as I have personally witnessed so many times before, these people are so fixated with their "God concept", be it Jesus, YAHWEY, Jehovah, Jove or Jupiter, that they unknowingly detract the searcher away from the main line of truth because it is how they have been trained or indoctrinated by the group/cult. And likewise, I have personally witnessed, the most intelligent of people, deliberately detract the searcher away from the main point of truth and redirect the searchers focus on petty side issues, endless circular reasoning and dead end paths. They do this, deliberately or otherwise, in order to protect their mind set; their faith. Unfortunately, whether you realise it or not, this is exactly what you have done with this Zeitgeist Challenge website and again in your reply to my 1st post.

You have stated in your reply mail: If I have to take your word for it or Acharya S' word for it then I have to put my faith in you or her.

Again, (whether you see this or not,) this is another typical Strawman argument, as it is neither myself or Acharya that you HAVE to put your faith in, you put your trust in the evidence! Just as you would in a court of law. In fact, just think about how bizarre this is: If we went to a court of law to examine the evidence, "Was there ever an historical Jesus?" It would be thrown out before it even got started and yet, if it were somehow allowed to be even entertained, we are then expected to SWEAR ON THE BIBLE to tell the truth! We are expected to SWEAR ON THE BIBLE, the very thing we are presenting evidence from to show it is either historical fact or an hysterical fable! HOW IRONIC IS THAT! That is the irrational mindset of man! The reason why the planet and the human race is in such a state! Pure CULT-ivated indoctrination! Quite mad, but quite true ...and how many people have ever thought that? How many people have ever reasoned that one out? Apart from Bill Hicks? Maybe only a handfull.

Having dealt with religious cults since 1994 and personally helping many people escape a cult life_style_, (Christians or whoever they maybe), you can bet your bottom dollar that I abhor hypocrisy, blatant lies, devious side tracking, intellectual dishonesty and anything else that obstructs the decent individual who wishes to know the truth and that includes, Strawmen, Knight Jumping, decietful omissions and many other techniques.

You say: you understand that outside of the bible there is very little proof of the existence of Jesus Christ. But I have faith that He existed. For someone to point their finger accusingly in my direction while believing someone who tells them a series of gods all have the same characteristics as Jesus Christ without accurately being able to tell me where they came across this information... well... there's a huge question of intellectual honesty that has to be addressed.

Let me politely give you the answers to your two statements made above. Firstly, there is absolutely no physical or tangible evidence / proof from anywhere in the history of (0 AD to 33 AD) that shows Jesus was a real individual. Not a thing! There was also no talking snake up a tree in a magical garden. There was no Adam and Eve. There was no Abraham, no Moses, no Noah. There was no 12 disciples, there was no Paul and unfortunately, there was no Jesus. They were all a mixture of either motifs, _meta_phors and or personifications of "other" _object_s and "older" stories, long predating the Christian era. The Virgin birth, the baby in a basket story, the sole survivor of infanticide, the Cross, were all copied and adopted.

It really is, as simple as that!

And the bottom line is, regarding your Zeitgeist Challenge is this:

The Virgin birth. The birthdate of December 25th. The three wise men/magi. The star in the East. Child teacher at age 12. Ministry at age of 30. Had 12 helpers or disciples. Walked on Water. Performed miracles. Turned water into wine. Was known as, the light, the truth, Alpha & Omega, new born savior, God's anointed and many others. Crucified on the cross. Being seen as "dead for three days". The resurrection. ...ALL THIS comes from the "Astrological story of the SUN". The SUN's yearly journey and its characteristics as it passes in front of various Constellations at varying times of the year. Many cultures had this same story, with very similar, if not exact characteristics. They deified THEIR god or godman and these stories were abundant, long prior the Christian era. Granted: There may have been a donkey in a stable somewhere at some point in time but that's about as historical as you are going to get. That is why the bible is called the greatest STORY ever told, because it is exactly that, A STORY! Not historical fact or something to be taken so seriously and literal, in that millions have already slaughtered each over it or that children are refused life saving blood transfusions!

However, I totally agree with you when you say: we aren't looking to fight. We aren't looking to demonize. We aren't even telling people what to think. We are simply asking for sources and encouraging people to actually look this stuff up for themselves... Which Frank, is absolutely right! You and everyone should examine fully the facts of history, examine and investigate the archaeological evidence and the origins of religion; the real origins of your faith. (So don't forget to check out your FREE gift below).

You also said: Clearly you took the time to post a well written response to the challenge and you knew you weren't going to get a dime for it.

Actually, that never even entered my head and as I said in my original post, because of the nature of the way you have presented your Zeitgeist challenge, it does not matter how much is offered, no one can ever show you from the "historical record" that Attis was born of a Virgin, or that Dionysus was born on December 25th no more than proving from the same source that Jack climbed that beanstalk or that Dorothy did in fact find that, "somewhere" over the rainbow.

What you are doing is asking for these characteristics as presented in Zeitgeist, to be shown in, or to have come from the historical record, or some cuneiform text, or some Egyptian hieroglyph rather than from (Mythology _base_d on Nature), which is exactly where they came from and originated in the first place. The truth of the matter is, all these characteristics and similarities you are questioning and putting out as a challenge, come from an ancient STORY, as was perceived by ancient man and which has then been forced into "looking like" it came from the historical record but which actually represents nothing more than personified _object_s as seen by man and then interpreted.

Therefore, when Strawmen are used, it is very easy to answer both sides and I have answered both your Zeitgeist Challenge question as to "why" these characters share these similar characteristics ...and "where" all these characteristics come from.

All the characters you have listed from Horus to Mithra not forgetting from Apollo, through Jesus to Zeus, remember...they are ALL invented, ...made up, ...created by man, (whatever you want to call it), they are ALL as none existent as each other, NONE of them ever lived! The ONLY reason why they share some of the same attributes as each other is because as I have already said, they all originate from the "same story" and were all personifications of the "same" _object_! The SUN! It really is as simple as that!

However, I totally agree that this shouldn't be a matter of money, but rather intellectual honesty but I fully understand why you offer money, ...like you said, it is for some people about the only thing that will motivate them and after all you did say that ...maybe someone out there can prove the stuff? Well, ...I have explained your tactics; explaining that your Zeitgeist Challenge can never be shown from history, (as this ancient STORY is _base_d purely on Nature and Mythology). This is the equivilent as asking someone to extract pure gold from sea water! It just won't work!

I have explained why various "none living" characters share the same characteristics and I have shown you where all these attributes come from, (or originate from) and no matter how much you dig, or how far you investigate, or how much you genuinely offer, this is as far as you'll ever get, as this is the bottom line. The end of the road! Is that not worth $250.00 ?

If you think it is, then I would like you to donate the $250.00 to Acharya S to pay for 25 books, "Who was Jesus? Fingerprints of the Christ" and have these donated to 25 libraries of her choice. And as you are the first person to reply to my post, I'll tell you what I'm going to do as a gesture of good will. I am going to buy you Acharya's first book, The Christ Conspiracy, brand spanking new and send it to you, FREE of charge and I want you to read it from cover to cover. I want you to fully investigate every snippet of historical and archaeological evidence and then post on this site, all the evidence that shows Jesus was who the bible says he is/was and under that, post all the evidence which shows Jesus to be a mythological figure!

You said, ...should two nobodies with very little income start offering millions of dollars to people for something like this... well, then I'm sure there'd be a lot more interest in it, but we'd be lying to you and to everyone else as we're not rich and we have no backing from anyone.

I agree Frank, it's shame that more people weren’t motivated by their belief to defend their faith, rather than having to have their interest perked up by the whiff of cash! But that is people for you! Like I said, I have always been the sort of person who wanted to know the truth to the point where you could go no further and never go back. I have now reached that point and I am fully released from all that mind destroying, backward theology and free from irrational Christian fanatics.

I now know everything I ever wanted and much more ...and all from a completely unbiased and shockingly simple source, The Christ Conspiracy!


Finally, you state, we are simply asking for the places we can find proof of ZGpt1, Acharya S', and your own claims about these common characteristics. If they exist, then there must be sources that can be verified in stating as much.

And my reply to you Frank is this: Yes there is, and I have explained these to you in full and given you all the answers in that, they are ALL mythological, symbolic motifs and _meta_phors of the SUN, that big ball of fiery gas we see in the sky, everyday.


Thanks for your thoughtful response.
-Frank

Kindest regards and I look forward to seeing your research and investigation regarding the historical and archaeological evidence as presented in The Christ Conspiracy.

SAIFAI.

PS. Nice looking website, good graphics, well presented, proffessional and smart; just hope it was worth its purpose!

Hi Frank and the other guy!

Remember my gesture of good will that I told you about in my last mail? Well, I have bought you Acharya's first book, The Christ Conspiracy, brand spanking new and I am going to send it to you as promised, TOTALLY FREE of charge and I want you and your pal to read it from cover to cover. I want you, as a duty to yourself and for the people who visit this website, to fully investigate every snippet of the historical and archaeological evidence presented in that book and then post it on this site that shows Jesus was who the bible says he is/was. Then simply post under that, all the evidence (from that book), which shows Jesus to be a mythological figure and we can compare the two.

So now you have no excuse to examine both sides. If however, you “do” refuse to examine the evidence, then it will be obvious to everyone that you and your buddy are totally biased, not _object_ive and have no intention of presenting an honest case.

Send me a postal address where you can collect your book and we can take it from there!

Thanks SAIFAI

Acharya S. has merely presented the work and conclusions of other authors of decades past. There's nothing in her book "The Christ Conspiracy" that hasn't been said before - long ago. This is a fact.
Now understand that I'm not posting this message/response because I personally hold a pro or an anti-Christian view or any motivations connected to postive or negative feelings about Christianity either way. Rather, I'm posting this message/response because I've dealt with Acharya S. and her little clique of admirers at her two yahoo forum groups. These groups are, "From Fun to Superconsciousness" and "Christ_Conspiracy".
I can tell you that Acharya S. can't stand any detailed debate or lengthy discussion about any aspect of her work, or about any subject unrealted to her work which she happens to hold dear ( such as the deceased guru, Osho ). Acharya and her cronies become extremely abusive and very high-handed if one dares to make any comment to the contrary about any of their sacred cows. This hyper emotionalism is obviously also the reason why she hasn't shown up at this site to take the challenge and collect the cash. She knows she's merely regurgitated the material and views of other authors, and she has nothing to back up her book's content with in terms of actual, verifiable facts. Both myself and several other people ( all banned from both her yahoo groups ) have repeatedly questioned her about accepting the Zeitgeist challenge, and as you can see, she's laying low and hasn't made the slightest effort to come to this site and set things straight, so to speak.
In fact, both Acharya S. and many members of her little "in crowd" have stated that the initiators of the Zeitgeist challenge are "only kids who don't know what they're talking about". In response to this, I repeatedly pointed out that if this was the case, then it should be rather simple to show the "kids" that they truly don't know what they've been saying by giving them some proof that will silence them once and for all. Acharya's response to this was to say that I was "disrespecting her".
What is important to understand about this issue surrounding the content of The Christ Conspiracy and also her input towards Zeitgeist is that all of it was produced by a hack, not a scholar. A hack is someone who uses the work of others to promote a specific agenda or perspective on things. A scholar produces original work and can back up what he or she has stated with facts and documented evidence. So you see, Acharya S. is one of those people who have an irrational axe to grind. She's a person who thought she could quickly make some progress in her axe grinding by utilizing the work of others and by targeting the dupes of our dumbed-down society and culture by means of publishing books like The Christ Conspiracy which contain regurgitated material and by contributing to sham presentations such as Zeitgeist. Naturally she won't respond to any challenges asking for fact and proof, and she'll run and hide once she and her regurgitated work has been exposed.
The Acharya S.'s, Jordan Maxwell's, William Henry's, and others who make up this ilk need to be hounded and exposed to the fullest extent. Such people are cranks and crackpots and simply require such determined responses.
But there is another important aspect to the work of Acharya S. which most people overlook entirely. The information concerning the elements of Christianity originating in other more ancient religions is just the icing over the top of a view of reality which holds that "religon" of any kind is responsible for all of the world's ills and all of man's bad behavior! According to the mind of Acharya S., man's cultures do not spawn his religions, and therefore man is controlled by his beliefs, he does not control his beliefs. Let me state this again; man creates or originates a belief system and then is controlled by that belief system!!!Human Nature, group politics, Territorialism as a survival mechanism, and other standard motivators driving human behavior are of no importance to the likes of Acharya S. She even goes so far as to suggest that both Hitler and Stalin committed the terrible acts they did due to Christian backgrounds! I could go into great detail to prove that Acharya S. is so mentally far off the beaten path one what is behind the violence, tragedy, and death connected to human history its laughable, but I won't do so in this post. I will say that Acharya S. reveals herself to be competely disconnected from reality and from the "hows" and "whys" of the human condition down through history. She has a completely backward, upside down, and inside out perspective of "man" and of man's behavior patterns as one of the many life forms on this planet.
I will say that religions of all sorts constitute the "window dressing" of the cultures they were spawned by. And cultures are manifestations of group survival mechanisms. Groups consist of like-minded and genetically related human beings, and it is the human beings who control the group, its culture, and the culture's window dressing ( totems, morals, dwellings, food/diets, AND RELIGION!!). The window dressing does NOT control the human beings. Leaders may use the window dressing to motivate the members of their respective group in order to accomplish specific ends which the leaders deem necessary or which the leaders desire. But no population of human beings anywhere on the globe at any time in history ever committed any act specifically due to the religion their culture contained. Even Islam cannot motivate its followers to do or not do any specific thing or take any specific action in any specific manner. The leaders of Islamic countries can ( and do ) utilize Islam's content to motivate the members of their nations to act in specific ways. In other words, it is plain to see that PEOPLE control religion and not the other way around!
Acharya S. is one of those kooks who yearn for a Socialist's paradise in which all peoples everywhere unite and "live as one" after rejecting their controlling religions! She and her cronies feel that this is perfectly possible. Hence her crusade against religions - especially Christianity and Islam.
This is nonsense, of course. Unification of all the subspecies ( races) making up the human species would reduce the survival potential of the human species as a whole to such a degree that, sooner or later, the human species would be brought to ultimate and complete destruction - extinction! "Mankind" would die out. Acharya S., therefore, is a New Age dreamer who has no grasp of the reality of life as it applies to human beings now or at any other time in history.
I am all for exposing her and her work to the fullest extent possible.
For futher information concerning the REAL and TRUE motivating factors behind human behavior, read; "The Territorial Imperative".

Geekto / "bobbeckfan,"

"Acharya S. has merely presented the work and conclusions of other authors of decades past. There's nothing in her book "The Christ Conspiracy" that hasn't been said before - long ago. This is a fact."

A fact? Really? Then where's it coming from? Her work is a compilation of the history of astrotheology but it is not well known to the general public at all. However, there is plenty of original research throughout her work too.

"I'm posting this message/response because I've dealt with Acharya S. and her little clique of admirers at her two yahoo forum groups. These groups are, "From Fun to Superconsciousness" and "Christ_Conspiracy"."

You mean you went into her groups to make false assumptions _base_d in ignorance and heckle Acharya and the other members there from your own incompetence. You've been essentially stalking her trying to re-join her groups under new user names to do the same thing all over again and you keep getting caught so you're pissed.

"I can tell you that Acharya S. can't stand any detailed debate or lengthy discussion about any aspect of her work"

Actually, you come across as insane so nobody want to have a discussion with you. Don't blame Acharya for your own issues and sacred cows.

"This hyper emotionalism is obviously also the reason why she hasn't shown up at this site to take the challenge and collect the cash."

More like nobody trust these guys to actually pay up and $250 is not worth anybodies time.

"She knows she's merely regurgitated the material and views of other authors, and she has nothing to back up her book's content with in terms of actual, verifiable facts."

This comment demonstrates that you really don't know her work at all.

"Both myself and several other people ( all banned from both her yahoo groups ) have repeatedly questioned her about accepting the Zeitgeist challenge, and as you can see, she's laying low and hasn't made the slightest effort to come to this site and set things straight, so to speak."

When you say "other people" again you're referring just yourself as being banned several times for being an asshole. She made a video response geared toward ZG Challenge and all the rest & covered them all quite well too:

"ZEITGEIST, Part 1" Debunked/Refuted? Acharya Responds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9ZyddjaM4

"In fact, both Acharya S. and many members of her little "in crowd" have stated that the initiators of the Zeitgeist challenge are "only kids who don't know what they're talking about"."

Okay then what are Frank & Chris Whites qualifications / credentials etc? How about Keith Truth, what are his qualifications / credentials etc? How about all the rest of the people who have their videos here, what degrees do they have and from what Universities? And how about yours, geekto? Or are you in your own words a "hack"? And what original works have you written? Where's your inerrant masterpiece?