I find this Challenge to be utterly rediculous. It is an assult on free-thinking. Instead of debating the validity of the claims made in an excellently produced docu-type film, you have made it a contest to prove the truth of ancient Egyptian and Greek mythologies. Oh wait... aren't you the same guys who maintain: thedivineevidence.com? no? creepily similar headers. What a beautifully maintained and organized website, i might add. a wealth of text carefully chosen to illustrate vague insinuations of Your truth, coupled with arguments for and against.

The greatest thing to take from the Zeitgeist film is the astrological similarities, and their significance to understanding multi-cultural mythologies, which are not even discussed. The "jesus being a hack" thing is also being pursued in the wrong way. Tell me that fossilized dinosaur bones were created to test my faith. That carbon dating is fundamentally flawed. That Eve was once Adam's Rib. What would you have me believe, seriously? When you spend your life understanding things _base_d on what your senses tell you, what you put together for yourself _base_d on the validity of your sources, and a bit of reason, It makes sense that Genesis was a wicked sweet bedtime story on world creation.

The zeitgeist film opens very serious discussion, and though i am sure it is a possibility that the makers of it had slightly or even largely fabricated portions of it to fit their agenda for denouncing the church, it is irresponsible and even demeaning to your cause to denounce it by organising a website that claims it will pay money to "prove" whether peoples of a long time ago held certain beliefs or not. that's like telling me my great-great grandfather was full of it when he said my great grandfather was an illegitimate child just because i can't find his diary to cite it.

This approach is misleading; it takes people away from the conversation that matters. Go ahead and argue your faith. Present to me rational ideas for it. But every time i see something like this, it furthers my belief that religion is indeed maintained as a form of social and political control.

I highly doubt this post will remain on your boards, but if wishes came true i would wish that it did.

"It is an assault on free-thinking."

Zeitgeist is hardly free thought. It presents to the audience a one-sided view claiming its own authority as the truth. Look at the quote 7 minutes in (from Massey himself) to see how the film is a lie unto itself. They do not want you to see any other truth but their truth because they are the "new" authority. Why are they an authority? Are they the only ones who can reveal the meaning behind ancient writings, hieroglyphs and pictures? Do they feel that they cannot bother you by posting the direct, first-hand sources and translations that they used in their interpretations because you are not as smart? Why is the only ancient source directly listed on the website the KJV bible (hardly ancient)?

Example: The Negative Confession in the Egyptian Book of the Dead vs. The Hebrew Decalogue

If the Egyptian Book of the Dead (of which there is more than one) says what they claim (it "does" BTW), then why is it not listed directly in their list of sources? You can easily find the book(s) of the dead online. Why did they not post a direct _link_ on their website?

Here, I'll give you one:

The Complete Book of the Dead...OF ANI (written in 240 B.C.)

The negative confession (or 10 commandments, if you must) is there. Be aware that this translation by E.A. Wallis Budge is around 100 years old and is considered "outdated". Better translations exist (i.e. Faulkner's) but I cannot find them online...for free. In any regard if it was so easy for me to find it why could they not include it?

Truth:

They only use their authority about these ancient sources because they don't want you to think for yourself...unless you draw the same conclusion as their's. You have to mount a search for that proverbial "needle in the haystack" to find the truth for yourself. They seem to be betting on the fact the most of us are too lazy (or busy if you insist) to be skeptical and look. Just look at the copious number of youtube responses in favor of this movie and you will see a number of people who are "intellectualy lazy". Most of them cannot even pronounce zeitgeist even though they heard the word in the film (1:50:36)! I shudder every time I watch these people...it's like watching a car accident or a pianist who draws a blank during the middle of the performance...

...besides the fact that they have been duped.

P.S. Parallelism does not necessairly imply synonymity. That is the crux of my argument against Zeitgeist: The Movie.

"It is an assault on free thinking."

Indeed. But I'd prefer that if you should quote me--and thanks for correcting my apparent misspelling--that you keep the quote within its context. I used this sentence to illustrate the absurdity of publishing a website that claims to, to borrow the words of Bo Fowler's Edgar Malroy: "put your money where your faith is."

I will also note the next few words following that statement: "Instead of debating the validity of the claims..." This is important. I have yet to see opponents of the film take this seriously. Unless, of course you count www.thedivineevidence.com, which appears to be moderated by someone affiliated with this site. I will not take the time yet to dissasemble the words there and point to the vague insinuations and claims to credibility listed there. All in good time.

I think I will borrow some of your words:


"[Zeitgeist] presents to the audience a one-sided view claiming its own authority as the truth." This sounds eerily familiar to the Holy Bible. Also, the Torah. And Qur’an. And Dianetics. And, the Evolution of Species. (my personal favorite.) So what then, if it's on film it's automatically discredited?

"Look at the quote 7 minutes in (from Massey himself) to see how the film is a lie unto itself." 7 minutes into which version? The full movie is still in the audio/intro. the youtube part 1 version shows "the sun of God." Where is this quote?

"They do not want you to see any other truth but their truth because they are the "new" authority." Doesn't this remind you of the Christians and the Pagans?

"Why are they an authority?" I don't know who attributed that word to "they." But I imagine that an insightful, well documented, well presented film surely warrants praise and criticism. Which, by the way, are things that authoritive figures tend to receive.

"Are they the only ones who can reveal the meaning behind ancient writings, hieroglyphs and pictures?" No. lots of people can. they usually have degrees and things of that ilk. Actually, some of these people wrote books and spoke words that were used in the film.

"Do they feel that they cannot bother you by posting the direct, first-hand sources and translations that they used in their interpretations because you are not as smart?" Please see this _link_: (which apparently isn't working, but zeitgeistmovie dot com, forward slash tran_script_, forward slash, {do not use the underscores}works... http://zeitgeistmovie.com/tran_script_.htm

"Why is the only ancient source directly listed on the website the KJV bible (hardly ancient)?" Why does it need to be ancient? Why can't people... People, who translated glyphs with no cultural aid... translate? We are an industrious people. We continue to learn. To make discoveries. New technology. New understanding of old ideas. We have come far, my friend.

"Be aware that this translation by E.A. Wallis Budge is around 100 years old and is considered "outdated"." Why? It's outdated. does that mean that the work of a well-respected Egyptologist isn't worth a damn? I found an interesting quote that works nice aside this statement of yours: "I have yet to be contacted by a single person who has, for example, read the total works of Egyptologist Gerald Massey or Egyptologist E. A. Wallis Budge on the subject and can argue any specific point." -From the Q&A section of the Zeitgeist movie website.


"They only use their authority about these ancient sources because they don't want you to think for yourself..." Sadly as it is, most people do not think for themselves. We have become "intellectually lazy," to be sure. We have become such a televised nation that most people don't even read anymore. So it makes sense that in order to present a new idea to a lot of people, a well-done video would be most effective.


It is, however, rediculous to discredit handfuls of people as "intellectually lazy" because they took the time to understand someone else's train of thought. Regardless of the media used to convey it. This is bordering facism. "You take my truth, and my truth only." No? Of course it is. Allow people to excercise their intellect, damaged as it may or may not be.

A lot of people won't check the sources. (you may not even check the provided _link_.) Many of them simply do not have the time. Others are way too lazy and others could give a crap anyway. I will check on everything i can get my hands on. It will take a lot of time that i probably don't have. I will keep an open mind. I won't get upset when i don't agree with something or someone doesn't agree with me. I'm in it for what makes the most sense _base_d on the knowledge i gather through all the senses as i walk through life, not for what other people tell me makes the most sense.

I hope you are too.

I've been reading a lot of the posts of people who are "pro" Acharya S. and her work, including the content of Zeitgeist and I've noticed that it is almost always a case where they demonstrate that they misunderstand the reasoning behind this site and the Zeitgeist Challenge.
That is, they wish to debate the validity of Christianity as a belief system since they themselves obviously are hostile toward that religion. They miss the point that the Challenge is concerned with finding historic sources that back up the claims and positions of Acharya S.
As was stated in another post; if all or most of the well-known acient gods were personifications or symbolic human-like representations of the SUN, where are the cultural references which state this? Where in the evidence and artifacts of each culture can there be found mention made of the gods of that culture being connected to the Sun?
Instead of focusing on this, the pro-Acharya posters instead offer views on how they feel the Challenge initiators are not interested in freedom of thought, etc. This smacks of a "True Believer" mindset on the part of the pro-Acharya crowd. They exhibit the very traits which they claim are so negative and which they despise so much in believers of religions ( Christianity, Islam, etc. )! If enough time is taken communicating with Acharya S. and her believer/followers, it is easy to see that they are as "religiously-minded" as any so-called mindless Bible thumper ever was. They've turned the content of Acharya's book and the content of Zeitgeist into their religious belief and they become exceedingly hostile if anyone dares poke a few holes in either for any reason...even if those reasons are merely a search for concrete facts.